Missional Conversation (Part 2)
With apologies to JamesBrett I’m linking here to the second part of this conversation between Dave Fitch and Ed Stetzer. Their topic of conversation this time is a doozy: Can Megachurches be Missional?
Missional Conversation (Part 2)
Some quick thoughts from me:
Ed was preaching at First Baptist Church of Hendersonville, TN, at the time. He says he was the interim pastor for them — a megachurch of just over 9,000 people — 94% of whom were involved in small groups. That’s remarkable and commendable.
Ed also accurately diagnoses one very big reason why Christians are often attracted to megachurches: they feel the need to hide and heal. This is important and can be healthy. However, Christians are not meant to hide and heal forever. Perhaps it’s appropriate for a season, but who is in a position to tell these people, “It’s time to get back in the game”?
I also think Ed gets it right when he says that asking if “megachurches” are good or bad is the wrong question. The better question is, “Are there good megachurches and bad megachurches?” The answer to that is, obviously, yes.
I love Dave’s statement that the goal many people have of turning their church into a megachurch — or, worse, believing that mega is the only way to be effective — is misguided. Ed’s response is classic Ed: “I want those pastors to have a multiplying vision, not a mega vision.”
For JamesBrett (who has a hard time downloading and watching video because of the cost of bandwidth where he is in Tanzania), here are some links to articles written by Ed and Dave:
“Missional Churches and MegaChurches” by Ed Stetzer
“Can A Megachurch be Missional?” by Dave Fitch — If you read this article, please read Dave’s last paragraph — the part where he says, “I believe the work of the mega-churches is valid and has its place in the Kingdom: the ministry to the dormant unchurched of Christendom.” If we’re going to have this conversation, let’s please be charitable toward those with whom we disagree, okay?
BTW, if you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m firmly in Ed’s camp (though I completely agree with everything Dave says about the dangers of video church). Ed has actually written about this as well in an article challenging many of the assumptions of multi-site churches.
Okay, there’s a lot of thought-provoking material in there for us all. Thoughts? Comments? Observations?
December 1st, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Agree the belief that one can “hide and heal” is a lie from the enemy.
Celebrate Recovery said it best, “we are only as sick as our secrets.”
In my office, I tell folks “let’s bring it to the light and it will be alright”
Sadly most would rather stuff it…or try the heal and hide method.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Funny story about that, iz. I was preaching a series on Money, Sex and Power, and I was doing the message about sex. But that morning, our church (which had just moved into a new building with a supersonic sound system and smart lights and all those bells and whistles) experienced a power outage. The band had to play unplugged, and we just had some working lights up in the auditorium.
I got to the end of the message and told the people there that I realized this was a sensitive topic and that many of us have either sinned sexually or been sinned against. I assured them that there was healing for them, but I said, “There is no healing in hiding.”
Then I told them that we’d have some counselors available and other resources that could help them, but that first step is to summon the courage to bring their damage into the light.
At that exact moment, the power kicked on and one of our “smart” lights swung on its swivel and shone like an interrogation spotlight directly on a lady sitting in the third row.
I looked at her and said, “Is there something you’d like to confess?”
Good times….
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 am
My attempt at brevity:
- How a community of faith chooses to assemble doesn’t matter to me a great deal. I see that time as an opportunity for Christians to bring their worship before God and encourage / hold one another accountable in worship and in mission. So mega church or tiny church, not much difference to me…
- For me the question is, “what is your primary means of sharing the gospel with others?” Do we play on consumerism, convincing people to come to us, so we can share with them — or do we spend time in our community being Christ to people?
- I honestly believe that a lot of mega churches are doing a great job of serving and ministering to people in their communities through anything from food banks to English classes. But I have to ask if we require an activity to show God’s love for others, or do our obedient lives naturally demonstrate it no matter where we go? I’m not downing the programs necessarily; I just know they’re often organized because members are not living (or not willing to live) transformed and blatantly spiritual lives in our communities. If we’re living Christ into our neighborhoods and choose to keep the programs, all the better. I believe megas are in a great position to offer those programs while still being “missional ” in those cases.
- Ultimately I don’t think there is anything inherently bad about mega churches. It just seems that if we really intend to live Christ into a community, we’re spending an awful lot of money on a private, spiritual place where we won’t be spending much of our time.
- Any objective anyone will admit that it’s much more difficult for a mega church to be incarnational (or missional or whatever you’d like to call it). My question, then, is, “what is so good about the mega churches that we want to have to overcome those difficulties in order to keep that system?”
- But I love my mega church brothers and sisters. Please don’t let my thoughts be understood otherwise…
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:04 am
When I left ministry, I needed a place to “hide and heal.” I never really ran away from God (in fact, it probably drew me closer to Him) but I had enough of His people. (John can attest to this as we shared a foxhole for some time) At any rate, I found what I needed in a megachurch. I was able to worship, heal, and allow God to speak to me without all the busyness and noise that had led me to that place. Having said that, I also found that after a “season” the megachurch no longer “did it for me.” In fact, God called me to get off the bench and get involved again.
I will always appreciate the time that I spent healing my spirit in that megachurch. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it’s ok to have a spiritual hospital where we can retreat for healing. We do not, however, need to allow that “hospital” to become a spiritual nursing home.
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:42 am
Jenksym-
Great word pics “hospital” vs. “nursing home”
Guess that is why the question Jesus asked was so powerful.
“Do you want to be well?”.
Many do not.
At least they are not willing to do, what it will take… to get well.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
It has been awhile since I watched these. I hope you don’t mind a comment that comes with my rust.
I agree that size has little to do with anything. Attitude is what matters. You can be small for very bad reasons just like you can be big.
I am more of a Dave guy with certain reservations. For me there are certain things that come with feeding the machine that you don’t have with less size. I also think there are certain things called ministry with size that don’t seem like ministry at all.